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Responses to Dr. Chaffin
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agree As I indicated in my comment before reading Dr. Chaffin, we teachers do often worry so much about our students. I am presently enrolled in a graduate program for technology in education. I have certainly experienced enough already in my coursework to know that I will never know it all or be able to keep pace with the changing technological world. I was reassured to realize an "expert" shared my views. disagree I think one must have a certain level of knowledge before one can "appreciate" and then integrate. I have no problem with empowering students or in using their skills as major resources - however if the activity is to have "purpose" in relation to declared student outcomes (standards) then the teacher must be capable of determining if the activity will lead students toward or away from these goals. Teachers need not be experts in computer use but rather informed users who have sufficient knowledge to make good decisions. |
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agree I have a 21st century classroom and have found if you wait until you have learned all of the technology your machines will never be turned on during the school year. Kids are understanding. You wouldn't believe the number of high school students that were more than willing to teach teachers programs. There have been more than one time that I have learned right along with the students. The whole idea is that they learn! There are many programs that do wonderful things, but a basic word processing program will allow you do many projects that can be done by the students and you. ClarisWorks 4 is wonderful! You can type reports, make charts, graphs and even produce slide show for group projects and reports. You don't need that much to get started. The main idea is that you start! agree Wow! Like Chaffin, I have been trying for years to teach teachers to use computers without much success. But I DO want to learn to use streaming audio like this! agree I have found that many of my students some as young as 12 know light years more than me, the so-called "computer teacher." I am as much a student of technology as they are and I'm resigned to the fact that as technology continues to evolve I will remain a learner. |
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agree You are right, but I do not see any harm in teachers becoming familiar with what's out there - as long as it does not discourage them from getting on with the fact that students learn better and faster with technology. I try to keep this thought in my head - the focus is NOT technology, the focus IS curriculum - and it can be enhanced by teachers getting a ride on the information highway - not in the fast or slow lanes - but in the middle one until they become comfortable with it. I intend to make my teachers aware of your ideas - maybe they will not be so frightened. Wish the administration would back off though - the "spray and pray" staff developments are going full speed ahead. agree I agree with Dr. Chaffin. My experience training teachers has proven his theories. Some of my most accomplished teachers were the most reluctant until their students showed them the way. disagree It has been my experience that the teachers who do not have basic computer skills or are not willing in invest the time to have some computer-related skills are the teachers who just let the computer sit there or use it for game/reward activities. |
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"I teach my students that computers
are like cars, credit cards and telephones--you don't have to like them, but to
participate fully in our world you need to be able to use them." |
agree Jerry, couldn't agree with you more. agree Dr. C is leaving left field for the parking lot when he says teachers don't need to know computers. I submit that any teacher who would admit to her class that she is not computer literate should be as ashamed as a teacher who confessed he couldn't read. I teach my students that computers are like cars, credit cards and telephones--you don't have to like them, but to participate fully in our world you need to be able to use them. I said I agreed with the good Doctor because he emphasized learning and I, too, know the only way to teach kids to become learners is to model the behavior for and with them every day. So let's all learn, learn, learn but keep those useless technophobes out of the schools. agree Only because I simply don't have the time the kids have to devote to computer learning. I learn with and from them. Programs are changing so quickly, it is a never-ending struggle to keep up. The more I learn, the more I find I don't know! I do enjoy learning though and try to convey that to my students. agree I teach technology in a School of Education, and I'm teaching much the same thing, although they need to be literate enough to bring up the rear and fulfill the legal "net-cop" functions. I tell my teachers they don't have to know everything, trust the process and let the students teach each other (and you). |
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agree It's what I've said all along. You just need to be interested and open to new ideas. The best way to do a project with kids is to learn it with them as you go. This is the type of learning that becomes most valuable to you. It lets you see where both you and your students make discoveries, mistakes, and successes. When you learn with your students you are more in tune with what they are thinking and learning. The project becomes everyone's not just an "Assignment". disagree Teacher must know something about technology, computers to even plan a lesson. Many of the latest curriculum designs require computer knowledge to access the materials to be taught. Oh yes, I agree empower the students without a doubt but only a teacher who has some computer knowledge has the skills to plan that empowerment. To say a teacher doesn't need computer skills would be like saying teachers of the 1930-40 didn't need to progress any further than a slate and 10 students in the classroom to prepare students for the future. I strongly feel that the empowerment of students with so much knowledge comes via the confidence of a teacher who can somewhat, although not entirely, understand the knowledge base these students bring to the classroom to share. Tell me Jerry, would you also agree that a coach can teach tennis, baseball, or basketball without a knowledge of the sport? |
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"We may be the ones who inspire, instigate and encourage learning but we also learn on
the way. Discovering is not dated and if we attempt it all
together, what joy!!" |
disagree Children need the modeling to feel comfortable and secure with new technology. If we don't use it, why should they? Taking risks is scary for both teachers and students, but if they see us learning and struggling when we make mistakes, they accept that we will continue to learn until we get it right. We shouldn't give up just because it is difficult What a terrible role model that would be. Some of our students only come in contact with computers in the classroom, and we are responsible to see that we can guide them with this learning tool. In order to do this, we have to have the skills ourselves. It's an integral part of the curriculum, of their lives. Empower them yes, but be there to guide and help also! I agree and disagree with Dr. Jerry Chaffin. Dr. Chaffin seems to regret having spent 15 years trying to train teachers to use computers and related technology. Has he in turn learnt anything on the way? Even though he seems to feel his time was wasted, there has to have been a certain amount of learning done whether it be with the teachers he tried to train or within himself. The realization that teachers don't need to know how to use computers to me is not realistic. We are in an age where technology changes so very fast it is frightening. We shall never be experts but surely we can attempt to understand some of the various facets presented to us. I am thinking about it!!!! Teachers need to know how to engage students with content, to arrange multi-age groups for optimal learning, to individualize learning opportunities. Yes to all the above as it was the case before technology. Surely we have not lost it since it was introduced to us. Is it really too late for teachers? There must be hope for our sort. We may be the ones who inspire, instigate and encourage learning but we also learn on the way. We try new approaches all the time, some work some don't. We change and grow as we try. The teachers do get frustrated with computers as they also get frustrated with new curriculum outcomes, language programs, provincial report cards or others issues. Yes the computer technology changes so quickly our learning can't keep pace. It is not a question of waiting for teachers but getting ahead with the ones prepared to open our horizons. We must establish a partnership of learning and sharing. It has been done in other fields so technology should not be so different. We can share each other's strengths as well as our students' strengths. We can learn and profit together. The benefit would be twofold - for the students and - for the teacher. Yes, we can all play the learning game. And that's the key--learning--for you and your students. Relinquish some control, empower the students, set them on a path, and learn with them. To be computer literate is important but we cannot impose this upon all teachers. Each will have her/his own field of knowledge. It is a shame for the teachers who do not take up the challenge technology presents. It is just as much trouble as any other subject if you really get involved. Perhaps if they really let themselves go, teachers who want, would enjoy themselves more than they could have anticipated. It cannot be all that bad, look at all of us having fun. Discovering is not dated and if we attempt it all together, what joy!! |
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disagree Teachers shouldn't model frustration for their students. They must be professional and take the time to learn the capabilities that software and hardware have. The time has come to move forward with computers as teacher and student aids. This won't happen if the teacher has no clue what could be done with this technology. All professions require retooling from time to time. Those of us that can't evolve will become extinct, I hope. agree Dr. C is one hundred percent right on! I need to be a catalyst and learn with the students or learn from them. I also need access to computers and that is very difficult at the rural school where I work. agree Dr. Chaffin's reply is *very* refreshing. I have been doing some research in the area of teacher adoption of technology (more specifically, use of the internet) and have been very disappointed in the types of resources available for teachers. Every book/guide seems to mostly deal with topics like "getting connected" or "an overview of internet tools". Very little seems to be specifically related to education. What educators need to know, and what is far more interesting to them, is what they should do with this technology and why. Let others figure out the how part! |
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agree The teachers job is to teach kids to learn...that requires brains..compasion..it would be nice if they could spell, but that's not really necessary..and a love of learning...computers and other aids are just that..aids. agree I totally agree...the biggest thing is having the need, the motivation, then go with the flow. You do however need to know how to switch a computer on and do the bare necessities if you want to get going with it. After that you learn what you need to as the need arises. Its JIT learning. There is no such thing as being technically illiterate...you just haven't started down the road. Everyone starts at the beginning, some are just further down the road. agree We teachers have had over 20 years to get comfortable with computers and computer issues. it hasn't happened. We can come up with a million excuses. Face it: it won't happen. Allow the learners to use the tools necessary to learn: computers, books, newspapers, internet, etc. Teach with, but not, computers. |
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disagree Dr. Chaffin, I have conducted numerous workshops on effective uses of technology in the classroom. I am shocked that you would suggest that teachers sit and let the world pass them by. What about "life-long learning?" I am a firm believer that teachers can't lead, or teach, from behind. Why not focus on the administrators who do not allot funds, or time, for continuous education for teachers? or, Making it mandatory that teachers take a class per semester that would enhance their classroom performance? It is my personal and professional belief that if a teacher is too lazy to learn the new technology, then he/she doesn't need to be in the classroom, and should opt for a less demanding profession. I think it would have been more appropriate to discuss the extent to which teachers should know computers. These suggestions, however, are just the tip of a much larger iceberg. I didn't even discuss the fact that teaching is one of the lowest paid professions, or that parental involvement also plays a large part in students "technological learning." |
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"I feel the teacher should at least have a baseline comfort level
with a computer and be willing to learn along with the kids." |
disagree What age student do you refer to? Can the elementary student be prepared to learn the use of this tool on their own? They need guidance. I dare say, by the time the teacher figures it out, the students have lost interest. If the teacher is the "guide on the side" as opposed to the "sage on the stage", where do students get their guidance. How can we show young children the how to use the internet as a learning tool? The teacher needs to know enough about computers to guide children in the use of this tool! agree He is a man with great vision on how students should be taught! agree good thinking agree I agree that teachers need to know the many forms of communication. In order for students to learn how to access information from the computer, we need to be able to model, guide, and assess students individually. agree Computers are probably here to stay. We should learn to use them effectively and responsibly. I understand the point you make, however, I think teachers should know a little about the use of a computer. I know many who know nothing about using a computer and therefore don't even want one in the classroom for fear of looking inadequate in front of their students. I feel the teacher should at least have a baseline comfort level with a computer and be willing to learn along with the kids. |
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agree He is a man with great vision on how students should be taught! agree Although some structure is needed to guide computer instruction/adventuring, it may prove to be very interesting to challenge oneself and the students by presenting problems/assignments to be used to facilitate learning. agree Teachers need to know some basics and have expectations that students need to be aware of. Then students and teachers can work together in the learning process. agree It is true that students know a lot more about computers than I do. After all, learning is supposed to be a life-long thing. I can learn as much from them as they can for me. I guess one of my jobs is to make available the opportunity for learning to take place. |
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agree I agree with the fact that the computer education will always be a learning process for the teacher as well as the student. The computer world is ever changing and always advancing. If time is wasted on learning something that is obsolete in a year, then what is positive about that. agree However, I don't feel that it is too late for teachers to tackle new computer applications. Depending upon the age group of the students, it is necessary for the teacher to be a few steps ahead of the students. Yes, we learn together with students, but must be able to guide them. agree I agree that teachers need to know the many forms of communication. In order for students to learn how to access information from the computer, we need to be able to model, guide, and assess students individually. As in any classroom, a teacher will be faced with students on various levels. We need to be able to take them from where they are and learn together. I do think that teachers need some knowledge of computers/technology in order for optimal learning to occur. |
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agree I think that the fear and time issue is very real. If it's OK to learn right along with students and even use students as helpers, that's wonderful. My only problem is that I teach primary students, so their knowledge base is probably smaller. Therefore I do have to be more of a guide. agree Teachers do need to have a modicum of knowledge of at least how students can use computers effectively to enhance their learning. ...then they can be a part of the classroom team ! (By the way, learning to let the kids be in charge took me several years to learn....but , what an important lesson it has been.) agree You are correct! I have stayed away because it appeared to be just too "mechanical and not personal". You may be giving me the freedom to relax and have fun. |
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". . . when I begin to introduce some technology related to a concept, I usually find
help from several of the students who know much more than I know." |
agree Dr. Chaffin is correct as far as I'm concerned. I know very little about computers (I'm a poor typist too). But getting all worried about it will not help. I might as well relax and enjoy (at least try) the learning experience. I think computers are here to stay. agree Whenever I've attempted to use computers in my classroom, I really am the one or one of the ones that gets the most frustrated. Usually when I begin to introduce some technology related to a concept, I usually find help from several of the students who know much more than I know. agree I think it is very valuable for the students to see that you are never to old to learn. I feel that by building on the knowledge of the class, and ALL working together everyone benefits. The class climate will also benefit. I feel that by everyone learning to help everyone it will make the classroom as a whole stronger. agree Teachers do need to be able to "keep up with " the kids. Technology is here, to effectively teach, teachers need to be able to communicate with the kids in the same mode the kids are using. |
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agree To a large degree I agree. In previous response, I remarked that teacher needs basic windows skills and organizational skill. Your comment about teaching skills of course is very appropriate. I disagree about how long it takes to learn a new program. I teach science and computer applications. My major goal is to get students familiar enough with basic skills that they can learn new applications on their own. I think the same is true for teachers. Once you have learned a word processing program the next one is not that difficult. That is the value of the technology that is available. agree Teachers need to practice doing what they to best - teach - and that does mean relinquishing control to students and let them learn naturally - by doing. |
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disagree I too have spent significant amounts of time training teachers on the use of computers. From my experience, I have found that there are at least two distinct levels of training. Level I Computer Use - where educators learn how to use computers and the computer is in their hands. Level II Computer Integration - where educators learn how to integrate the use of computers in class and the computers are in the students' hands. The two levels required different skills and knowledge and to master level II, I have found it important for educators to gain at least some degree of mastery at level I. Without knowledge of computer use, educators do not understand the capabilities of the computer and, thus, have difficulties coming up with innovative and/or effective strategies for integration. They also have a hard time discerning why, when, where to integrate computers. I agree that the teacher does not have to be an expert. S/he can learn a lot from the students, but some level of proficiency, I believe, is required, to optimize the integration of computer technology in education. |
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agree However, teachers do feel uncomfortable with not being in control. A good teacher will always demonstrate confidence. It's hard to do this when you're worried about much of what you don't understand, and when you're always expecting the worst. I agree that students know much, but they are still students. Teachers can learn, but it will be slow. After all, they have tons of other responsibilities. It seems that the state should make sure at least one building level person does know about technology so he or she can provide the security blanket. That means training, release time, and/or support for one school techie; not every teacher in the building. Most teachers prefer to teach their subjects anyway without the hassle of learning about every piece of software. I do know some about hardware and software. I love technology. It has made a difference in my students' lives that I could foster their education by providing leadership that they deserve. You're right. All teachers do not need to know about technology, but someone in a block, building, system, etc. (other than the student) does need to know. |
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"Let's not keep the students away from computers
because the teacher is scared of computers." |
agree You are right on target! . . . as far as integrating technology into the curriculum. A person must have a degree of proficiency before "technology" can actually become a teaching "tool" for the teacher. We can't wait for that. Student s must learn themselves how to incorporate it into their lives (actually, it's already there, but they must visualize and make use of it themselves--not just at the check-out stand). In my district, teachers are required to keep an electronic gradebook and absences, tardies, etc. on a wide area network (disk backup recommended.) Unfortunately, at this time, they are also required to keep an old fashioned gradebook,too - - technology that way is no favor. disagree Interesting comments. I actually agree with you but...... there are a few basic things teachers need to know. These things make the other learning easier, like knowing how to turn on the thing! Yes, yes, yes, I agree that teachers need to take the attitude that they learn "with" their students. Let's not keep the students away from computers because the teacher is scared of computers. |
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agree Isn't part of our job to model an enthusiasm for learning? I've been having so much fun learning how to use the computer and it seems with each new skill I acquire I discover other facets yet to be mastered. I agree this is a life long process in this age of technology. My second graders enjoy it when they can show me something they know how to do on the computer and I don't. I love the attitude that we are in this together with our students. agree I work with teachers and I have the same frustrations. Unless, they are willing to put in 60-100 hours to learn about how to use a computer (which most are not) it's pretty futile. I am adopting the above attitude this year. I want teachers to give students the opportunity to use technology and I have recruited student assistants that will help teach other students the technology while the teacher directs the lesson. agree What a great technique!! As a teacher of teachers at Eastern Michigan University, I struggle with the issues you mentioned. Thanks for your articulation of the support for life-long learning and collaborative learning as well. |
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agree Partly for the very reason he gave: "it's too late for teachers"--at least many teachers. It does take a long time to master programs. If a teacher waits until he/she has mastered a given program, it could be months before it could be used by students. More important, though, is the need to change the relationship between students and teachers. By "giving in" to the fact that technology may not be their area of expertise, teachers can focus on what they do best: engage, coach, counsel, etc. They can still be a model--a model of a lifelong learner. The key is not that they needn't learn to use computers themselves, simply that they needn't try to "master" them before they let their students use them. agree Dr. Chaffin's point of view is now the reality. Chances are the ratio of student-computer literacy and usage to teacher-computer literacy is now considerably higher. In many situations teachers depend on students for guidance and direction in computer use. Teachers have a knack for learning concepts of computer use, of historical computer references, and the like, but rarely do teachers have as natural a feel for understanding what happens and why as do kids. |
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agree People, especially little people, can learn what they need to know by doing what they want to do. Teachers are enablers, and need to be out of the way when students get hooked on an idea or creation. All of us are smarter than any one of us, regardless of age. In business, the paradigm of training is changing from information dump to performance support. The same needs to happen in education, from Kindergarten through college. Keep up the great work, SCR*TEC Team! disagree How can you say that teachers don't need to learn the technology, then ask them to "learn together" with their students? A poor argument. Teachers need a comfort level with computers, and it's tough to gain that without understanding. "Too late for teachers"??? What a sad vision of expectations for the very folks that will bring this technology to our students. Perhaps your attitude is the reason you've had only "moderate success" with training teachers to use computers. Practice what you preach and learn from those who ARE having success. Your students will thank you! |
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". . . when I admit to not knowing things, my students feel more comfortable
making those same admissions." |
agree I agree on some points. We definitely can learn together, but I still believe we have to know some basic troubleshooting. If a school does not have a technology person available and student's run into difficulty time and time again which can't be answered in class, they will get frustrated too. The important thing is there needs to be a support system. Whether this is through another colleague or a technology teacher, support is needed. agree Somewhat anyway: I am one of those teachers who has access to computers at home through a computer literate family. I have spent much time conquering my fears and nervousness about the technology & find that when I admit to NOT knowing things, my students feel more comfortable making those same admissions. agree Using this approach, the kids see what a life-long learner looks like. It is an ISTE standard...helping students become life-long learners. How better than to be one...openly...in front of God and all of your kids. |
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disagree If you want your students to use a particular software package, I think it would be more meaningful to first teach them the basics and then let them "fly" rather than have them hack out the basics from help or manuals. Just like in any other subject, when students teach themselves, there are gaps in what they should know. Eliminate the gaps. Teach them the basics first and then let them show you the advanced techniques they figure out! disagree I think teachers know how to use computers is very important for them. Computers are the tools and bridges between teachers and students. Students are frequently ask teachers questions about computers. |
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I agree and disagree - how's that? Is it too late - nope - it's never too late while you're still kickin' to want to learn and TO learn. Should not knowing how to use computers hold back the use of technology with students? Absolutely not and it hasn't - except in some classrooms (far too many I suspect). If the real issue is who is going to control the use of computers, then I understand why some teachers 'have' to know first. If the real issue is learning - then no teacher is afraid to have kids learn. So define the issue, and the agreements and disagreements become sharper for the on-going conversation and options. agree students enjoy being in control. They will gladly help the teacher to learn. Let the students take the responsibility and they will learn more. |
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agree We presently have 150 macs on our site and have just introduced 150 Windows NT machines. We are betting that Dr. Chaffin is right and that providing our students with the tools will lead us into the future. There is much more to say.... disagree In your article you are still saying that teachers need to learn about computers. They need to learn what they do not know. agree I think teachers should be learners, too. By joining up with our students, we will learn together. |
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"Teachers need to know some basics so if a computer freezes he/she can
quickly get it back online and allow the student to continue." |
disagree Jerry, I think that most schools have limited use of computer lab time. Teachers need to know some basics so if a computer freezes he/she can quickly get it back online and allow the student to continue. They also need to know what the school software has to offer and how to use it. Sometimes tracking down the school tekkie takes longer than class time allows. As to teachers not needing to know all about software and programs, yeah - I agree. Many kids are much more literate than adults (my 15 year old is a prime example). agree I feel that most kids know more than I do about computers, but I am learning slowly and catching up. The technology is changing so fast and I feel that it is becoming more user friendly. I am definitely willing to give up some control and let the kids help me learn. |
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disagree I think it's important for teachers to at least know the basics of the software that is in the classroom. I agree that teachers and students can learn together, but I think teachers should be able to guide students at least for basic functions of computer operations. After participating in the Nebraska Writing Project, Rural Institute, I discovered that MOST language arts teachers are not proficient at using computer technology. But it's not their fault entirely. Many teachers struggle with poorly maintained LAN systems, or a network system is non-existent. Also, as far as the Internet is concerned, there is still major disparity among school districts. Some of my colleagues live in western Nebraska and did not have an email account. Some did, but never made use of it because of poor connections. I correspond by email at least three times a day, so I will seldom connect with those teachers, unless I use snail mail or telephone. Based upon my own experience in the classroom, teachers need these three things: 1. Time to learn how many types of software (i.e. word processors, data bases, multi-media, etc.) works so they can impart that knowledge to students, especially if they have questions...and THEY WILL. Without that knowledge students become frustrated and teachers do, too. 2. Teachers need inservice to know how to access resources if they have questions pertaining to the use of computers or other areas of inquiry. (This is not really a computer-related skill, but teachers must have it!) 3. Very basically, all teachers SHOULD KNOW how to use a word processor, electronic mail, a publishing software, (i.e. PowerPoint, Front Page), a web browser, and a database system (for instance, a grading program). P.S. I agree with Dr. Chaffin to some extent, but truly, when is the last time he was in a classroom? (For more than just a supervising visit). To make a statement that teachers are the only ones who get frustrated is ignorant. Students get VERY frustrated even by a printer that has gone awry, especially if they have a paper due! I have seen some pretty anxiety-ridden students over something that basic. Thankfully, I've learned how to use all elements of our computer lab, and especially how to clear printers and check for printer setup, etc. Yes, students can be empowered by allowing them to discover for themselves, and we can learn right along with them, but students still need immediate answers and at least some help in problem solving within the context of software applications. Also, with the use of email and specific programs like a writers forum or email novel exchanges the computer use agreements become a very touchy issue, especially with parents! Teachers need to know what to even look for and how--some students cross WAY over the line within school mail networks and internet. What would you do about that? Let it slide? No consequences? I'd be interested in your response. |
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agree Let my children go! New pedagogues such as constructivism engage and include students. The days of 'chalk and talk' are over. The biggest problem that teachers face is having the courage to let go, to recognize that kids have a vast store of knowledge and skills which everyone can learn and benefit from. If we want self-motivated and responsible learners we must structure learning situations to reinforce those qualities. Dr Chaffin's thesis has a General McArthur quality about it. McArthur was faced with winning back the South Pacific and his radical strategy was not to fight for every island but to jump over them and head straight for Japan to bring the war to an end. In schools we now need to jump obstacles and head for our main objective- confident, creative and self disciplined learners. disagree Teachers cannot use computers in teaching if they feel threatened by it. In addition teaching involves adminstaration which can be made productive thru the use of computers. Imagine how can a teacher help her/his students when they have problems with a PC during a lesson or when the teacher faces some problems when conducting the lesson. The use of open tools. Students need not need to know all the open tools. By the time they start working these tools might have been replaces. They need a appreciation of the IT culture and a reportoire of word-processing and graphic based skills in addition to searching the net and communication thru computers |
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agree True, we cannot know all about computers, ever...that said, let's get on to the job of infusing the computer into teacher preparation in the same manner that Dr. Chaffin suggests for K-12 teachers. . . all we need to do is find the carrot and the stick. I'm hoping that Goals 2000 and state certfication regulations will force these higher education teachers to "have love in their heart" and learn along with their students. . .building technology fearlessness into the K-12 teachers of the 21st century. |
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