I just ran into this discussion by chance this morning while investigating another related subject -- Dr. Chaffin has indeed a very interesting opinion. And I agree with the idea of teacher and student(s) being co-learners, the teacher a facilitator in the classroom. I also agree that the teacher does not need to know every single thing about computing, every application package, etc. However, it is my expereince that teachers do need to know a certain level of fundamentals concerning computing, otherwise they tend to lack vision toward use of computer resources in the classroom and for future planning. It is like building a house, if there is no basic foundation, the structure is likely to fail, or be terribly disfunctional. Identifying the vision and goals for technology, particularly in longer range planning, requires a certain level of understanding of the framework or foundation on which the vision and activities to fulfill the vision will be built. It has been my experience that groups of people that have a good grasp of basic concepts and foundational knowledge are much more likely to be able to move ahead in a positive, unified fashion than groups that with membership lacking these fundamental levels of understanding. And so it is with teachers needing basic understanding of computers and the use of computer technology both now and in the future. It is also just a bit too much of a blanket statement for my blood to say "it is too late for teachers," we are not totally devoid of early adopters in our membership! Susan Hotalling, Assessment Facilitator

Submitted from Lamar, CO on Wed Sep 2 10:38:03 1998.

I agree with Dr. Chaffin. Teachers need to get outside of their box and allow technology to drive.

Submitted from Des Moines, IA on Tue Aug 11 13:27:13 1998.

Dr. Chaffin, What you say makes sense to me. Teachers do indeed need to model and their goal should be to help the child to be successful. At first, I wasnt sure what your point was then I figured out what you really meant. The major point that I took home from your discussion is that it is not always necessary for the teacher to know everything before the student does. The teacher is not the only source of information. Children can learn from each other and teachers can learn from and with their students. This is especially true when it comes to computer technology. Since teachers are behind in what they would like to know to use it to its potential, they must take on the role of a beginner, just like the students. Some students may know more than the teacher. This is an area where teachers and students can learn together. This will enforce my own belief that learning is something done by, and not to, the learner. The teacher is just the skilled facilitator. Thanks, Norm Sedillo

Submitted from Lawrence, KS on Sun Feb 1 18:19:46 1998.

Hello Jerry! I think your opinion is very interesting. In the age of computers, I find it especially interesting that you feel a "teacher" does not really need to know how to use computers. I find myself agreeing with you! In a particular class that I teach, I have had students complete projects that incorporate computer usage. I myself am not real nervous using a computer. I understand some things on the computer and can "get by" however, I found that it was not a disadvanage to not completely know how everything works, but an advantage. I found that for the most part the students knew what the needed to know in order to get the project accomplished. I also found that most students were not uncomfortable getting on the computer. They were very open to suggestions and if they were stumped on any items, they were extremely willing to "play around" to get out of the situation. Computer shyness was not a problem for them!! I enjoyed not "knowing everything" and allowing the students to teach me information. I liked that students could not be just given the information. They actually had to do a little work and give effort to complete the project, since I honestly could not tell them "how" to go about doing it! I feel as if computers allow for some creativity and allow students to think! What a great tool to use in the classroom, and one that is enhanced when the teacher does not know everything about it!! Bravo for your thoughts!!

Submitted from Overland Park, KS on Thu Jan 22 08:15:59 1998.

Hell Jerry, I find your opinion is very interesting and suggestive. I used to use old DOS computers in my elementary shool class in any subject. First every students are very much interested in , But after some level some of them are flustrated with computers. It is not because they don't understand, but because they want to know other newer things about computers. They want apply computers to other things. However teachers tend to timid giving students things which they don't understand well enough. so by the time we teachers can give the soft ware, it became old. The teachers should know it is students who create or apply computers effectively to their interests. The only thing the techer should know is giving the students crative visions. Computer is one of the ways the students show and express themselves. It has to be creative, not task solving machine. Hideaki "Aki" Asakura aki@eagle.cc.ukans.edu Jan. 21, 1998

Submitted from Lawrence, Kansas on Wed Jan 21 19:15:36 1998.

I agree with your discussion. The computer field is changing much to quickly for one person to be able to learn and remember everything. In the e-mail that I sent for this assignment, I said that you have to know who to get answers from. Like you said in your discussion, different people know different things about computers. I do believe it is possible to learn a little bit form everybody. By keeping our cmmunication channels open, it is possible to learn from others. I think an atmpshpere that allows teachers and their students to work and learn together is fantastic. Everybody has a chance to say, "I know about this, but I want to learn how to do that. Can you help me learn?"

Submitted from Lawrence, KS on Wed Jan 21 18:01:29 1998.

Dr. Chaffin, I found your 'talk'very intrigueing. I do agree that teachers should relax, and learn that it's ok not to know everything about computers, however, I feel that without them knowing the basics they can't empower and encourage students adequately. Teachers can't set the pace or point to some of the possibilities with computers if they are not using computers themselves. Teachers may never keep up with everything that's new, but if they don't care and don't try their complacent attitude may not help them get or keep a job! --RGrubbs

Submitted from Lawrence, KS on Wed Jan 21 14:53:14 1998.

To: Dr. Jerry Chaffin From: Ann Brickey- (BrickeyA@AOL.com) I already shared with you some of the things that I felt teachers needed to know about computers in the assignment prior to your discussion.. Your presentation did make me think, and I believe that we share some of the same beliefs about computers in the classroom. I do feel strongly, however, that we can do a better job as teachers if we know some things about computers. You mentioned that you believed that as teachers it is our job to engage, arrange, individualize, assess, guide, facilitate and motivate students. I agree! Using the computer in our classrooms can't help but make us more effective at accomplishing these tasks. I agree with you that we need to be courageous and learn right along with our students. But I also feel that as teachers, we need to investigate ways to use technology to enhance our teaching practices.

Submitted from Mission, KS on Wed Jan 21 13:13:19 1998.

I agree that teachers must be able to engage students, assess behavior, evaluate, guide, facilitate, and motivate - but shouldn't they also be knowlegable enough to answer questions about computers that their students might have? I'm not talking about in-depth questions but basic questions. Teachers need to be competent in computer technology so that they can use it to their advantage.

Submitted from Lawrence, KS on Wed Jan 21 09:39:54 1998.

I believe that teachers should use whatever tools that they feel will help their students learn what is being taught. If that tool is a computer then the teacher should know how to use the application they are using. I do agree that it would be impossible to learn everything there is to know about what a computer can do and then keep up with all the new things that it can do. Matt Chandler e-mail: dragline@eagle.cc.ukans.edu

Submitted from Lawrence, KS on Tue Jan 20 14:55:17 1998.

I think that it is important for teachers to know about computers because teachers are role models for students to follow. At the same time, I don't think that they should be expected to know everything because that is not fair. Technology is so important it today's society that they should be expected to keep up with it, even if they do not fully understand it. I am taking this class for that reason and I would expect my teachers to be able to help me. I would also understand if they couldn't, but then it is the teacher's responsibility to find out the answer for the student.

Submitted from Lawrence, KS on Tue Jan 20 10:52:57 1998.

My response to Dr. Chaffin's presentation is that he accurately depicts the situation as it now is. This is not to say that I agree. I believe that teachers need to continue to be students throughout their lives so that the zeal for learning doesn't die out. My field is Latin. I love the language, and I love archaeology. When I started my program everyone said "why are you learning a dead language?". Dead is what you make of it. There is so much debate over so many things, particularly on the internet. The net is the best way to get new translations, advice, or just to stimulate interest. I know that one of the major reasons people don't make it as teachers is burnout. The only way to avoid burnout is to keep rekindling that flame of interest, and to start that flame in your students. Every resource should be used in the endeavor to teach students. Admittedly it may depend on the school one ends up at, and the resources available to that teacher and to the students themselves. What better way to provide enrichment opportunities to students then to offer them the world at the click of a mouse! They can visit Pompeii, zoom in on a picture, and then read material. All this without it having to cost anything (more or less). How incredibly exiciting!!! The opportunities to teach through the use of the computer are limitless. Drill and kill in language instruction is not a thing of the past, but rather relegated to a machine that can produce it and grade it faster and more accurately than any teacher. This in and of itself frees the teacher to be more inovative with the time he/she has with the students in the classroom.

Submitted from lawrence, ks on Sun Jan 18 15:09:17 1998.

As a future teacher I think that it is important that I know some things about computers. I think there are some basics that all teachers should know since it would allow them to communicate more effectively with others and gather information. I also realize that I will never probably know as much about computers as my students do and agree with Dr. Chaffin when he says that teachers will have to learn with their students. As a student some of my best learning experiences have been in situations in which the teacher has let us do hands on activities where we had to solve the problem or gather information and the teacher took the role of a learner along with us. I don't think that any teacher should be all knowing, but should always want to learn. That goes for learning about computers and the way that technology can help instruction.

Submitted from Overland Park , KS on Sun Jan 18 14:14:53 1998.

As a Title 1 Technology Facilatator I have found the biggest problem is fear of the computer and education does not care for for the technology. Care for meaning keep it up and running properly. Purchases are made without regard to the wiring needs of the site to used. Purchases for software are not studied for compatability with the hardware or with respect to the curriculum needs.

Submitted from San Antonio, TX on Thu Sep 18 20:44:16 1997.

I once thought that teachers (and I am one) could work their way through learning how to use the Internet - but the more I work to learn ways to help them - the more I realize that to use the computer for integration and communication- the more I see the need for one-to-one instruction for teachers. Not the mass inservices that are now being held. I never realized that there are very few teachers using the Internet - and I wondered why. My answer is that most do not have the tools or the money or perhaps the curiosity to be able to do so. Texas teachers will be held accountable in the next year or so for students learning technology skills - but the state does not seem to care how teachers learn. I am concerned about this, and hope to be able to make a difference - by spending my money and time --at home -- to learn. Thank you for your ideas and maybe - you'll come up with suggestions instead of our opinions. Judy Curtis Lamar Consolidated Independent School District Rosenberg, Texas

Submitted from East Bernard, TX on Mon Sep 15 19:55:59 1997.

I agree with the idea that teachers do not need to know how to use computers. I think that teachers can learn about computers with the students. I do believe that teachers should keep up on current technology and teach the students about it. They should give the students every opportunity to learn about and experience computers. Computers and technology are constantly changing and teachers do no have the time to keep up. Teachers should however include computers into their curriculum, giving the students experience. Students appear to know a lot about computers these days. Teachers can learn from their students.

Submitted from lawrence, ks on Mon Sep 8 11:20:01 1997.

I must disagree. I feel that in saying teachers don't need to know anything about computers, they are limiting themselves as well as the students. It does not take long to figure out what one can and cannot do with a computer. This type of propaganda can only hurt those willing enough to let themselves use this as an excuse to avoid and be afraid of computers. Computers are the means to which this nation will function those left outside will be without an identity, work, life. The field of teaching is a continual learning process, why limit ones knowlege of this cornerstone to the future? Not to mention a better way to communicate and relate to children, young adults, and adults on a common medium. Computers have no way to limit a person, people limit people why try to oppress the ignorant. Thats what I think.

Submitted from Lawrence, KS on Sat Sep 6 12:37:39 1997.

Really, Dr. Chaffin, let's get real about this business of teachers and computers. Regardless, everyone needs to learn to be computer literate and especially teachers. We are talking productivity and efficiency here. I've been responsible for seeing to it that teachers are all computer literate and users. I think every teacher needs his/her own compter on their desk in the classroom. To think otherwise is to regress to the middle ages and education is still there in many ways.

Submitted from Pittsburgh, PA on Fri Sep 5 03:54:50 1997.

Teachers do not need to be completely computer literate in order to be effective with students. However, they do need a basic understanding not only of the uses of technology, but also a rudimentary understanding of how to use certain applications. They MUST possess the willingness to let students go -- to allow students to create and explore using technology, they cannot expect to lead students through a scope and sequence and be effective with technology. Tom Breuckman

Submitted from Portland, OREWhOregon on Tue Sep 2 16:13:29 1997.

As an educational technology specialist, my own bias must be considered in this response. Because the survey was taken by teachers using computers, there will be a natural inclination for respondents to be atypical and have some commonalities not found in the general teacher population. Therefore, the results that show issues like classroom management and integration as small percents are even more alarming. However, because teachers tend to respond not necessarily about themselves, but about their peers (we aren't comfortable "standing out"), we may consider that the respondents were answering for others, not just themselves. Another possibility is that even though these teachers are using computers, they may still be in the early stages (such as described in Apple Classroom of Tomorrow research). This is similar to the student in "driver ed" who is asked what kind of features are most important in buying a car. What's the chance that the responses will highly correlate to the features (safety, maintenance, etc.) recommended in Consumer Reports? Sometimes in the early learning phases we just don't know what we don't know. Eric Willard 972.390.7000

Submitted from Allen, TX on Sat Aug 30 07:19:04 1997.